Episode 112: How to use tarot with intuitive writing?

This week, Crys and JP discuss what intuitive writing is and how they use tarot to guide their writing process.

Question of the week: What have you used for writing inspiration? Share your answer here.

Show Notes

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Transcript

Crys: Hello friends, and welcome to the Write Away Podcast. It is October 1st, 2022, as we are recording. I’m Crys Cain with my cohost…

JP: JP Rindfleisch.

Crys: And after an unintentional two week break, we are back. And we did post on the website that we were not dead. But what happened was we were getting ready to record for two weeks because I was going on vacation, but I was on deadline and I was afraid that I was going to combust if I tried to fit everything in.

So I said to JP, hey, can we not record? We’ll record a tiny little bit that says, oh, this is what’s happening. Then I didn’t do that. I did meet my deadline, and then I went on vacation. Vacation was lovely. And I managed to, not 100% not work the entire week, but 100% not work the entire time.

I was not visiting friends, like on first full vacation as an adult with no other adults who I knew with me. Not visiting anyone, just going somewhere and enjoying it. I like spent one day when I sent my edits from my one editor to my other editor and sent an email. Like that’s the amount of work I did the entire week, which is the least amount of work I’ve done I think on any vacation ever. So that was quite an accomplishment.

And then promptly after I got back, I got to like the post vacation crud that knocked me out for an equivalent of four days. Three days of being down for the count, one day of recovery. And then yesterday anxiety day of omg, so much has been let go in the last three weeks. And the worst part of all of that sickness is that I messed up my pre-order for my third German book. I was in the process of uploading it feverish, then didn’t finish uploading it on its deadline day.

And so I’m currently not able to post pre-orders, start new pre-orders. It seems to let me continue to keep my existing pre-orders for other books that are upcoming, thank goodness. So I have six months to convince them to give it back to me. But the German pre-order was a wash. I lost all of those and my momentum, but I did just go ahead and say F it and uploaded the book four days earlier than I intended to and haven’t done anything with it except just let it sit there and exist. But it is what it is.

So how’s your three weeks been?

JP: Yes. It’s been really good. So I can’t remember when days were, but I went on vacation in Montana and felt minorly guilty because I wasn’t doing as much work as I guess I should have. But at the same time, it felt wonderful. It was wonderful to be out in nature, wonderful to take a break. Sometimes that is just important.

And then I got back, and it took me a couple days, but I’m like Really on track, or more on track than I normally am with producing stuff. So with the project with Abe, book two is with editor, book three is with beta readers. So I don’t have to touch any of those because book four is being drafted.

So I’ve actually been working on the Publish in Six project and decided I wanted to turn that into a Vella, which I intend to release– I’m looking at dates here to try and decide– probably the 16th of October, cause that’s mid-October on a Sunday, which is a good day to release Vellas. And so I’m really excited. I have six episodes written. And they’re fun, they’re weird, they’re quirky. Yeah, I don’t know. I’m excited. I’m excited for things. Things are going well. Yay!

Crys: My brain’s still like back in July and I’m like, you’ve got plenty of time. Then I look at my little clock on my calendar, and it’s like October 1st. I’m like, how did that happen?

JP: Yep. Yep. I think I still have the mentality that I wanna release two episodes a week, releasing the first six on that week, and then two the following week. But I’m probably gonna slow that down to maybe do a one and a two, so that I release one one week, two the next week. Just have a weird flow like that, just because I want to, because I don’t care. This is a fun time. This is my own project. I don’t have anyone else that’s dependent on it, so it’s all for my fun experimentation.

And I also created an AI cover for it, and I liked the AI cover for it, and then I was like, I don’t want the bar to entry, and I feel like what I could create would still be a step lower than like a cover designer. So I ended up going with 100 Covers, I still don’t have the design back yet, but I’m really excited to see what that turns out to be.

Crys: Me too. Okay, this week we are talking about intuitive writing with tarot which we’ve covered, I think it was almost a year ago when we did some episodes on short story with tarot, some spreads. And I think I wanted to start out by not getting into the specifics of the cards, because we talked about covering like what the different types of cards were, but more on how we use tarot at times when we are writing.

So last time we set ourselves a challenge to do a three card spread for our three story method points, which are conflict, choice, and consequence, and use those three cards and their meanings to build up the idea for a story.

JP: Yeah.

Crys: The other thing we did is we pulled some character inspiration cards for those. Where did you wanna start this conversation?

JP: I think in the broader sense of what are we defining as intuitive writing versus non-intuitive writing, just for those that may not know the difference, maybe that’s a good place.

Crys: Yeah, and I know that there are a lot of people out there teaching intuitive writing that I haven’t looked into who might have quite different definitions and perhaps more accurate definitions than I have. I think for me, is intuitive is different than like stream of conscious for me because I use a prompt, or a series of prompts. And I think that a lot of people would disagree with me on that. And this is just personal definitions, there’s no actual definition here. We’re just saying what the framework for our discussion is. That’s what it is for me. How about you?

JP: I found one thing that someone was talking about, I don’t remember where it is, but they were talking about conceptual writer versus intuitive writer, and that really came down to pantsing versus plotting, but maybe using different terms. But conceptual is someone that’s able to plan things ahead of time or have that structure framework. So like what you’re saying, even prompts create the structure framework ahead of time, whereas an intuitive writer, they go with the feel or the flow.

Another thing that I found really interesting with some of the discussions I was reading is that intuitive writers may not be linear in the form that they write, whereas conceptual writers was usually they have a plan, they move forward to the next scene in the next. Whereas an intuitive writer may write a scene at the beginning of the story, in the middle, and in the end to follow a flow or a theme that they’re trying to convey, and then go back, sort of Like they’re creating this mosaic by focusing on different aspects of it.

Crys: That sounds so chaotic to my brain.

JP: Chaotic.

Chaotic That’s not how I’m ever going to write, but that sounds wonderful for someone.

Crys: Yeah, I’ve always been a linear writer, like the most nonstructural or non-linear I will be is when I have to go back and add a scene later on.

JP: Yeah. I think in that aspect, I’m not that kind of intuitive writer, but I really do like the aspect of using tools like tarot and whatnot to drive the intuition or the chaos back into a story that may not be imposed by any external storytelling. And by that, I mean like if I’m trying to come up with a story about young adult urban fantasy, in my head I’m gonna start conceptualizing different movies, different stories, and I’m gonna be building a story that’s same but different. But when I start introducing aspects of chaos, like tarot, then I’m pulling potential themes that have nothing to do with urban fantasy, but it pulls on a string that I can add into the storytelling.

Crys: I like that. Since last time we talked about using tarot with our writing, we focus far more on the conceptual and like creating a structure. Let’s talk about how we use tarot when we’re already in the flow of writing a story. Say you’re like five chapters in, maybe you have a structure, maybe you don’t, but you hit a roadblock. What are some ways that we can bring in this chaos, bring in this intuition, and try and overcome that roadblock, that writer’s block, whatever it is, with some tarot?

JP: Yeah, so with the Vella piece that I’m going to be working on– or that I am working on– I originally wrote it from one point of view and decided I needed three because of the way that the story is. And by doing that, I’ve made more space. I’ve made more of the ability to hone in on a certain character, go through an aspect of their life that I hadn’t planned out for.

So what I wanna do with tarot, is when I get to the scene where I’m like, Okay, I don’t know what the hell this person’s gonna do, I wanna pull a card, and I wanna look at that card, and I wanna use that card to deliver a scene that will become the next Vella episode. I love using tarot in that aspect because it helps me create something that I had no intention or plan for. But yes, I will actually be doing that probably for the next scene that I write.

Crys: So one of the things I love about tarot is the artwork. And this I think is part of where the intuition can come in because you don’t necessarily have to know like the meanings of the cards to find use in a tarot deck with pictures on it. A lot of people who do tarot will — and not everyone for sure– but there’s a good strong movement that believes more in strictly intuitive reading. When you see the card, know the name, see the images on it, what comes to mind? You can do that with tarot too. You don’t have to like know the meanings of the cards.

I’m too book based and too like rules and list minded to do full intuitive. But that’s one of the reasons I like having multiple tarot sets, is that I can reach for a set that might have artwork that’s more in line with the question I’m trying to answer.

So I have three decks on hand right now. One is the Madame Clara that you have, and that one is a little steam punky, cozy, but like dark cozy. One is the Wild Unknown, which is very nature based, stark and bright at the same time, a lot of black and white and a lot of like splashes of rainbow colors. Then the last one is very colorful, very people focused, and that is Light Seers.

so I can pick depending on which artwork I think will help inspire me. Like am I having a relationship question? I might wanna use my Light Seers to see like what characters and what kind of situations pop up in the card I pull. Am I wanting to question something more abstract? Then maybe I go for one of the other decks. Or I think there’s something heading in the woods, like I’ll pull from any of the decks, whatever one is closest. I find that can be super useful as well.

JP: Yeah, I actually usually stick with one deck at a time. I don’t know why I have so many. But I’ve been playing around with the Alley Man’s tarot because it is madness. There’s like over 140 cards, a normal tarot deck has 78. And it was a Kickstarter, and they basically worked with a ton of different tarot artists, and they took one card from each deck, and they built the standard deck.

They added in strange things. For example, Madame Clara, she has buttons, needles, things that aren’t the average like sword ones and whatnot. So they basically have this like weird suit. They have a whole other Arcana, they have a whole other just whatever, I don’t even know. But it’s really fun to use because the images are anything and everything. From like horror, creepy, like sometimes just like terrifying images, to like fun, happy, cute images and everything in between.

And I actually, I used this last week when I was talking with my co-writer. And I was like, hey, we’re in this stage for our current main series, but we know that we wanna do a ton of different spinoffs and different trilogies that kind of function in the same world, let me write the one of the trilogies. And I pulled out tarot cards for the trilogy, and I had an idea in my head that it was gonna be relatively dark, and that Alley man’s tarot definitely did not–

Crys: Disappoint.

JP: Disappoint, that’s the word I was looking for. It was like almost all of the dark and depressing cards in the whole deck. And it was actually really interesting because from the way that I interpreted it, it was starting out in a way that I wouldn’t normally start a story, but I think that it’s gonna lead to something very interesting and very different than what I would’ve gone with. And I’m excited for it. Yes, I’m currently in love with the Alley Man’s Tarot.

Crys: Delightful. Now, are you using it for anything more than just planning the scenes in writing the Vella?

JP: Normally, that’s really all that I use that for. I have been playing around with the AI generative art for ideas and for thoughts and ways to build the world that I have in my head. To create an image that I can then use as like a starting off point. And I think that’s a really good tool. Like there’s Mid Journey in Dolly Two, which are both really wonderful. And you get a couple free things, for anyone listening, that you can play around with.

And basically you could type in where you’re stuck. Victorian era garden party murder. You could type that, and then you’d get these generative things and maybe something sparks an idea in your head. Maybe it’s an image of a scene where, someone’s holding a dagger behind their back, and now you have something to start off with. But I’ve been really enjoying using generative art to get an idea for my characters, what they look like, and maybe even some of the scenes that I want to play around with.

Crys: I will use specific questions if I’m feeling stumped on a point of inspiration or am lacking finding the interest in a scene. And we did talk about these some in our previous episodes with the short stories, where we can ask what is this character afraid of, or what happens in the scene that is surprising. You can really ask yourself any question and pull a card and see what comes to mind for you with that card.

Because what I find is the usefulness of tarot or any — I tried to order Malou, I don’t know, like once or twice to get it and to get it here to Costa Rica, which is a storytelling based card deck, it is made for generating ideas. and it failed to get here, and I was just absolutely sad. So sad. JP is showing off his and I’m ignoring him.

JP: There’s also an app on your phone that does the same thing by Malou.

Crys: I forgot about that.

JP: You’re welcome.

Crys: I was like, I should have access because I bought it, but I didn’t get the card set and there’s probably a code. Anyways, regardless, if I talk about it anymore, I’ll be bitter. But I feel like, do you have access to all the expansions? Cause I feel like I had access from what I ordered.

JP: I don’t remember. I don’t use the app.

Crys: Anyways. Those of us not living in the Northern Americas are not so lucky.

Any kind of cards like image based could be really useful for this because the importance is not always like what card specifically stands for, but what you understand the card stands for, combined with your understanding of the story, combined with the whole back archive of your brain, and then whatever connections, your intuition, your subconscious pulls together and puts in front of you. Like that’s the power of this.

JP: Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent agree. And that’s why it doesn’t have to be tarot, it can be the Malou deck, it can be Story Engine, it can be almost anything. The whole idea is to get that spark moving so that your subconscious is working with all the stuff that you’ve been trying to figure out and hopefully give you a spark to get going.

One of the things I really like to do Is the Pomodoro stuff because it gets you into that flow state of writing, and I really think that if you were to pull a card during the break or during the moment you’re just about to start, look up what that kind of meaning is and then force yourself –for those that can do Pomodoro– force yourself to sit down, put that timer on, and start writing after having looked at that tarot card. Because the idea is that you might get into that flow state, you might be able to get those words out that you may or may not have been stuck on before. But that’s why I love Pomodoro so much, just because I can just keep producing. And for some reason Pomodoro works for me that way.

Crys: Well, for our dear listeners, I’m curious if you all have used anything specifically for inspiration. I know some folks who browse Pinterest for very similar purposes that we’ve talked about here. So I’m curious what y’all have used to help you dig into that intuition and spark ideas that may not have been what were in your plan from the get-go.

JP: Also tell me your tarot decks so that I can probably collect them because problem.

Crys: He’ll buy them all. I was just thinking the other day that if I wanted to buy you a board game for like your birthday or something, I couldn’t say, hey, have you heard about this cool new board game? Because then you would just go fucking buy it. I would have to message someone else in your house and ask, hey, does JP have this board game?

JP: They would ask me though because they don’t know.

Crys: I wondered if that might be a sticking point. All right, you’re frustrating. Anyways, thank all so much for being here.

At the beginning of the year, we pulled a year spread. So one card for every month, plus one card for the year, to guide our business reflections, and we’re about to record our reflections for September and discuss what October looks like. If you would like access to that and many other of our back episodes, especially our business talks about writing and business, you can check us out on patreon.com/writeawaypodcast.

And one last reminder, we are going to be doing a series on marketing upcoming. I think next week we might talk a little bit more about some of the specific things in tarot that we did not discuss in our Major Arcana discussions, but we might jump into marketing.

JP and I are gremlins of chaos. We try to keep it contained, but I’m warning you there’s an either/or here, so we will see you all next week.

JP: Talk to you later.